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	<title>Comments on: The downside to passive investing.</title>
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		<title>By: Brad Knotts</title>
		<link>http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-downside-to-passive-investing/comment-page-1/#comment-4141</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Knotts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/?p=4409#comment-4141</guid>
		<description>Rob Benett posited: &quot;the heavy promotion of Passive Investing concepts has led millions to believe that high prices are not dangerous. It’s that belief that caused prices to go to such insane levels and remain at those levels for so long.&quot;

Interesting hypothesis. Perhaps you could provide some evidence to support this contention? I have looked in vain using internet search engines for any evidence of correlation between the advocacy of &#039;Passive Investing&#039; (whatever that may be defined as)  and the high price of stocks. I see no such claim or indication anywhere, except by you.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob Benett posited: &#8220;the heavy promotion of Passive Investing concepts has led millions to believe that high prices are not dangerous. It’s that belief that caused prices to go to such insane levels and remain at those levels for so long.&#8221;</p>
<p>Interesting hypothesis. Perhaps you could provide some evidence to support this contention? I have looked in vain using internet search engines for any evidence of correlation between the advocacy of &#8216;Passive Investing&#8217; (whatever that may be defined as)  and the high price of stocks. I see no such claim or indication anywhere, except by you.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave C.</title>
		<link>http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-downside-to-passive-investing/comment-page-1/#comment-1500</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 16:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/?p=4409#comment-1500</guid>
		<description>My stance is, combine value, contrarian, and passive investing all in one.
If you buy a great company at a low enough price, you won&#039;t need to bother with watching the ups and downs of the market. At least thats what Ben Graham seemed to be telling me in &quot;The Intelligent Investor&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My stance is, combine value, contrarian, and passive investing all in one.<br />
If you buy a great company at a low enough price, you won&#8217;t need to bother with watching the ups and downs of the market. At least thats what Ben Graham seemed to be telling me in &#8220;The Intelligent Investor&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-downside-to-passive-investing/comment-page-1/#comment-1490</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 15:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/?p=4409#comment-1490</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;There are two diametric belief systems about the market and the nature of markets. The first is that markets work (passive), the other is that markets do not work (active).&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s a simple and accurate description of the primary point of contention.

My view is that markets work when investors are educated about how they work and that the massive promotion of the Passive approach (as it was initially developed) has led to investors &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; being educated about how markets work. If most people understood how much the valuation level that applies on the day you purchase an index fund affects your long-term return on that fund, prices would self-regulate (once prices got too high, millions would  sell and prices would return to reasonable levels).

The problem in recent years is that the heavy promotion of Passive Investing concepts has led millions to believe that high prices are not dangerous. It&#039;s that belief that caused prices to go to such insane levels and remain at those levels for so long.

Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>There are two diametric belief systems about the market and the nature of markets. The first is that markets work (passive), the other is that markets do not work (active).</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s a simple and accurate description of the primary point of contention.</p>
<p>My view is that markets work when investors are educated about how they work and that the massive promotion of the Passive approach (as it was initially developed) has led to investors <i>not</i> being educated about how markets work. If most people understood how much the valuation level that applies on the day you purchase an index fund affects your long-term return on that fund, prices would self-regulate (once prices got too high, millions would  sell and prices would return to reasonable levels).</p>
<p>The problem in recent years is that the heavy promotion of Passive Investing concepts has led millions to believe that high prices are not dangerous. It&#8217;s that belief that caused prices to go to such insane levels and remain at those levels for so long.</p>
<p>Rob</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-downside-to-passive-investing/comment-page-1/#comment-1489</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 14:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/?p=4409#comment-1489</guid>
		<description>Matt SF: What exactly do you mean when you say, &quot;if you’re a passive passenger along for the (stock market) ride, what happens when you actually have to get out and drive?&quot;

Richard: Excellent explanation. Thanks for stopping by to contribute. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt SF: What exactly do you mean when you say, &#8220;if you’re a passive passenger along for the (stock market) ride, what happens when you actually have to get out and drive?&#8221;</p>
<p>Richard: Excellent explanation. Thanks for stopping by to contribute. <img src='http://d15f3663zqp4d2.cloudfront.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Richard Reyes</title>
		<link>http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-downside-to-passive-investing/comment-page-1/#comment-1488</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Reyes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 14:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/?p=4409#comment-1488</guid>
		<description>Reading these comments I believe that there is a huge misunderstanding about what investors characterize as &quot;passive investing&quot;. I believe that investors understanding is that you sit around and do absolutely nothing. 

Well this is really not a true definition of &quot;passive investing&quot;. There are two diametric belief systems about the market and the nature of markets. The first is that markets work (passive), the other is that markets do not work (active). 

The market works belief (passive) is what is known as the belief that the market is efficient and states that the markets are random and unpredictable and that they will quickly reflect new information and knowledge as it becomes availbale. 

The market fails belief (active) states that markets react slowly enough to allow some individuals to analyze and predict the future in order to take advantage of mispricings and pass value onto the investor. 

Because most investors have never even questioned the two differences or let alone read about them - they try to marry the two or make up their own definitions. 

Taking the passive approach to investing what you are doing is using Modern Portfolio Theory to build a portfolio that is globally diversified among various asset classes using index type funds or structured index funds to deliver market returns for the asset classes in the portfolio. The goal is to provide maximum diversification and correlation effects while maximizing returns for a given level of risk. 

It is also a life long process because you understand investments, the markets, and how they work. You do not market time. However, you do rebalance your portfolio in order to maintain your stated risk tolerance throughout the life of your portfolio. 

I hope this helps some of you. 

PS. Please don&#039;t bash. I am only trying to give some insight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading these comments I believe that there is a huge misunderstanding about what investors characterize as &#8220;passive investing&#8221;. I believe that investors understanding is that you sit around and do absolutely nothing. </p>
<p>Well this is really not a true definition of &#8220;passive investing&#8221;. There are two diametric belief systems about the market and the nature of markets. The first is that markets work (passive), the other is that markets do not work (active). </p>
<p>The market works belief (passive) is what is known as the belief that the market is efficient and states that the markets are random and unpredictable and that they will quickly reflect new information and knowledge as it becomes availbale. </p>
<p>The market fails belief (active) states that markets react slowly enough to allow some individuals to analyze and predict the future in order to take advantage of mispricings and pass value onto the investor. </p>
<p>Because most investors have never even questioned the two differences or let alone read about them &#8211; they try to marry the two or make up their own definitions. </p>
<p>Taking the passive approach to investing what you are doing is using Modern Portfolio Theory to build a portfolio that is globally diversified among various asset classes using index type funds or structured index funds to deliver market returns for the asset classes in the portfolio. The goal is to provide maximum diversification and correlation effects while maximizing returns for a given level of risk. </p>
<p>It is also a life long process because you understand investments, the markets, and how they work. You do not market time. However, you do rebalance your portfolio in order to maintain your stated risk tolerance throughout the life of your portfolio. </p>
<p>I hope this helps some of you. </p>
<p>PS. Please don&#8217;t bash. I am only trying to give some insight.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt SF</title>
		<link>http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-downside-to-passive-investing/comment-page-1/#comment-1485</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt SF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 06:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/?p=4409#comment-1485</guid>
		<description>It seems that those who stick to 100% passive investing don&#039;t seem to want to learn how the market works.  It&#039;s great to have your finances automated and have the discipline to invest regularly, but most folks who use index funds don&#039;t really bother reading up or studying how the market works. 

It&#039;s like they&#039;re just along for the ride.  However, if you&#039;re a passive passenger along for the (stock market) ride, what happens when you actually have to get out and drive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that those who stick to 100% passive investing don&#8217;t seem to want to learn how the market works.  It&#8217;s great to have your finances automated and have the discipline to invest regularly, but most folks who use index funds don&#8217;t really bother reading up or studying how the market works. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s like they&#8217;re just along for the ride.  However, if you&#8217;re a passive passenger along for the (stock market) ride, what happens when you actually have to get out and drive?</p>
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		<title>By: Irina I</title>
		<link>http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-downside-to-passive-investing/comment-page-1/#comment-1484</link>
		<dc:creator>Irina I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 06:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/?p=4409#comment-1484</guid>
		<description>Haha, love the list! This is one of the few cases where boring = awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, love the list! This is one of the few cases where boring = awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-downside-to-passive-investing/comment-page-1/#comment-1482</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 22:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/?p=4409#comment-1482</guid>
		<description>Joe: I&#039;d agree that we shouldn&#039;t expect a rate of return (in the U.S. market) over the next 30 years equal to what we&#039;ve seen from it in the last several decades.

My answer to that would be that we should lower our expectations (and adjust other variables accordingly) rather than attempt to beat the market.

Neal/Wealth Pilgrim: At times, passive investing will underperform what? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe: I&#8217;d agree that we shouldn&#8217;t expect a rate of return (in the U.S. market) over the next 30 years equal to what we&#8217;ve seen from it in the last several decades.</p>
<p>My answer to that would be that we should lower our expectations (and adjust other variables accordingly) rather than attempt to beat the market.</p>
<p>Neal/Wealth Pilgrim: At times, passive investing will underperform what? <img src='http://d15f3663zqp4d2.cloudfront.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Wealth Pilgrim</title>
		<link>http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-downside-to-passive-investing/comment-page-1/#comment-1481</link>
		<dc:creator>Wealth Pilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 22:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/?p=4409#comment-1481</guid>
		<description>Passive investing, like active investing, will underperform at times.  Every single investment strategy have its period of underperformance.  This is a downside because some investors flip once they are confronted with the reality that nothing is perfect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Passive investing, like active investing, will underperform at times.  Every single investment strategy have its period of underperformance.  This is a downside because some investors flip once they are confronted with the reality that nothing is perfect.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Light</title>
		<link>http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/the-downside-to-passive-investing/comment-page-1/#comment-1480</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 21:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/?p=4409#comment-1480</guid>
		<description>I think a lot of investors are starting to agree with Rob. Buy and hold investing doesn&#039;t have to mean &quot;Buy stocks at any price and hold forever.&quot; There&#039;s also no rule that says earnings growth going forward has to be as robust as what it was in the last 30 years. One of my colleagues at work wrote a while back that expecting the U.S. to grow as fast as it has since WW2 is like expecting Microsoft to grow as fast going forward as it did between its founding and dominance of PCs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a lot of investors are starting to agree with Rob. Buy and hold investing doesn&#8217;t have to mean &#8220;Buy stocks at any price and hold forever.&#8221; There&#8217;s also no rule that says earnings growth going forward has to be as robust as what it was in the last 30 years. One of my colleagues at work wrote a while back that expecting the U.S. to grow as fast as it has since WW2 is like expecting Microsoft to grow as fast going forward as it did between its founding and dominance of PCs.</p>
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